my probably long mk2 vr6 conversion - finaly started

[Golf Nut Pete]

Right for the last year i have been toying with the idea of making my car go quicker and decided the vr6 would be my prefered route, it sounds like big angry sex, goes like stink and kills baby seals and trees with the petrol it uses.

A week ago the old mk2 ive enjoyed for the last 4 years decided id left it long enough for its long overdue head gasket change , i got sick of changing water pipes bursting and hoping i dont sit in traffiic for too long and decided nows the time to do it, shame realy i was quite happy with it, it ran smoothly and faultlesly but just couldnt be bothered stickin a head gasket on it.

I got a place to put it curtosy of grandad, i am not fortunate enough to have a garage or driveway but hes got a big area at the back of his garden which is perfect.

So, started it this saturday, spurred on by the sack of **** i have to use as a daily hog gettin me down.
I could only spend 2 and a half hours on it saturday as i was off playing poker and drinkin that evening so could only get this far;




After a couple of hors i had the front end apart, inlet manifold, fuel injection stuff blah balh blah...
And ended up with a trailer full of parts..




That was the fruits of a couple of hours work on a cold day.

After a night of jeigermeister, john smiths, poker til 4:30AM and little sleep (i lost, again ) i got straight back around with the intention of having the old lump on the deck before i go home.

After a few hours grunting and fighting old rusty rounded bolts i succeeded in my aim for day and had it sat on the ground , suprisingly easy realy, but then taking summet apart normaly is .





So, there it is thats how far i got over the weekend, i left the lump in the on the floor in the engine bay until i decide what im gonna do with it.



All tucked away now, im off to munich for a week tomorrow morning so its gonna be a week or two until i start work on it again (im in two minds whether to keep the big bumpers or change to small, as i really like small bumpers at the minute, what do you think?).

Hopfully when i get back my OBD2 wiring loom will have arrived and i can get that stuck in. I have decided im keeping the original track of the car and staying 4 stud, ive opted for the OBD2 version as its suppsed to be better and has good diagnostic abilities, and im using the standard front cross member with a solid front mount made by "Duff" of here, great bit of kit and miles cheaper than the vibratechnics ones, also cheaper than sourcing a corrado cross member.

I have unfortunatly decided that i cant do it the proper/cheapest way and get a donor car for all my bits, i just dont have the room to store and work on two cars, i know im gonna end up spending more doing it but hey thats just how its gotta be for me . so am going to get the parts as and when i need them as i progress through the job.

My next task will be removing the subframe, steering rack and old kr managment/wiring. Then give the engine bay a good degreasing, im gonna grind out the rust prep it all up for paint, i love a good shiny paint job but realy i aint gonna see much of it so have decided im gonna be matt blacking/stone chipping the engine bay, make it look hard as nailis, if i was to paint it and get it nice and shiny id only just leave it to get dirty as i aint cleaning under the bonnet every week thats just mental .

Right, to the people who are considering doing it as well, i can not stress the importance of having a set of IRWIN BOLT GRIPS! If i did not have these i would not have been able to do a lot of what i have already done and a lot of bolts would still be attached to the car, get them they are worth the money i didnt even mess about on the majority of the bolts i just stuck a bolt gripper and breaker bar on and didnt bother trying to use a ratchet, especialy for allen headed bolts, id only round them off.

So more to come when i get back, ill update as i spend time on it or aquire new parts, better get packing for munich i think, it getting late.

[Golf Nut Pete]

for those intersted on knowing the parcel i have to drive to work/college everyday, here it





yup a 1.6 rt renault meganne.
It realy is a turd of a car, its just as thirsty (if not more than) as my kr was, it has a cracked windscreen slowly working its way towards my side, a dodgey engine mount that bangs on take off, a loud grumbling bearng at the front and no radio to drown it out, the back end steps out all the time when it rains at motorway speeds, but i got it for the princley sum (taxed and mot'd!) for £200 .

I plan to just drive it to death or until the tax/mot runs out then scrap it, the beauty of me paying only a couple hundred sheets for it is i wont lose much on it when i do scrap it.

I hate it that much me and a guy at work who has a £150 M reg vw Polo play bumper cars with them most days going out of work, when we see each other parked up or at lights we just bump into the back each other, or if hes behind me ill reverse into him. .

The faces of the people on the road when we do it is priceless, the other day i reversed into front of him while waitng to turn out of my work onto the main road, and he was trying to drive though me that much his tiyres were smokin and spinning, these cheap cars are great fun , although a little irresponsible.

[funkbaron]

Originally Posted by Golf Nut Pete

it sounds like big angry sex, goes like stink and kills baby seals and trees with the petrol it uses.

You forgot to mention the hedgerows/ditches/chevrons you'll be destroying at the first corner it takes EVERY mk2 owner knows vr6 swaps don't handle

[Golf Nut Pete]

ah, yes how could i forget the terrible trolly handling im gonna have with all that weighthangin up front , good job ive got this renault to get some practice in.

[1990]

Cool. I know a guy in Oldham that might have an engine and box if you need one.

[mk2lad]

pete hav u still got that 16v engine you removed? or are u keeping in case of a riany day?

[Golf Nut Pete]

ah, got home from munich yesterday to find i have a vr6 obd2 wiring loom to play with . which brings me to my next question, it looks pretty complete, with lighting and evrerything so i need a good wiring diagram to tell me what each plug/wire is? has anyone got one or a link to one as i cant find one?

I have been researching on mk2vr6.com and i think im gonna use the mk3 lighting loom as the wires are apparently the same, they just need the mk2 light plugs put on them for them to fit.

To the folk interseted in the engine and parts, i aint sure yet someone might already be having it but if not ill make all parts available.

1990 - is it an obd2 engine with box and ancillaries? if so, i would be intersted in it very much at the end of the month (subject to if i can afford it obviously).

[funkbaron]

Originally Posted by Golf Nut Pete

I have been researching on mk2vr6.com and i think im gonna use the mk3 lighting loom as the wires are apparently the same, they just need the mk2 light plugs put on them for them to fit.

Why would you put the mk3 lighting wiring plugs in, I don't get it? They're on seperate plugs to the fusebox - all you need is the 3 white engine plugs, it's a no-brainer to leave your mk2 wiring in place for the lights.

[Jolfa]

Originally Posted by Golf Nut Pete

(im in two minds whether to keep the big bumpers or change to small, as i really like small bumpers at the minute, what do you think?).

Big, every time

Originally Posted by Golf Nut Pete

im using the standard front cross member with a solid front mount made by "Duff" of here, great bit of kit and miles cheaper than the vibratechnics ones

Buy threadlock!

Looks like a nice little project, I'll be following it

[Golf Nut Pete]

Originally Posted by funkbaron

Why would you put the mk3 lighting wiring plugs in, I don't get it? They're on seperate plugs to the fusebox - all you need is the 3 white engine plugs, it's a no-brainer to leave your mk2 wiring in place for the lights.

I do know what ya saying, just my lighting loom has seen better days, few years ago i i had to chop em about abit as they had split and such.
I was also under the impression the mk3 lighting looms better?
If not then i may just do a better job of repairing them and leave them in?

[Golf Nut Pete]

Originally Posted by Jolfa

Big, every time

Buy threadlock!

Looks like a nice little project, I'll be following it

Why do they have issues with bolts coming loose? Cheers for heads up, will get the threadlock.

[funkbaron]

Other than being a newer loom (ie cables/wrap in better nick most likely), I can't see what would be better about the mk3 setup - if your mk2 loom is completely mullered then fair enough, just seems an odd idea to me.

Anyway, good luck with it. VR's in the mk2 are superb imo, you'll be happy with the finished result

[Golf Nut Pete]

ah ok, ill give the mk2 one a clean up, if its worth repairing ill do that and leave it in.
Thanks for the advise, its all appreciated.

[funkbaron]

If you click the bottom link below my picture, you should get a good idea with pics from that thread, although I used an OBD1 engine - most of it will apply, it has most of the build thread covered with detail.

[Jolfa]

Originally Posted by Golf Nut Pete

Why do they have issues with bolts coming loose? Cheers for heads up, will get the threadlock.

I've managed to strip the threads out of the top of the mount, lost several lower bolts, lost a starter motor - after first snapping the lower tag off it (which consiquently meant the engine practically fell out), snapped 2 front brackets, shook my bumper bolts loose (which again meant engine falling out)

Threadlock anything anywhere near it

[Golf Nut Pete]

Todays work related injury is a chunk of skin and the corner of my thunb nail cut off trying to remove the ecu
hello, cleared my engine bay today, took the subframe off and disconected everything from the fuse box. Am now ready to pull the loom out of the bulk head.
Is it possible to withdraw the loom from the bulkhead with the brake master cylinder etc in place as its all wedged in down there, (it doesnt look like it is possible)??

And if i do have to remove it to gain access is there a way to remove it without loosing brake fluid?
Reason im asking is i dont like bleeding brakes, tried it once and it was a right pain in the ass, but if i relay need to i suppose ill have to.

Cheers for the advice in advance folks, more pics tomorrow maybe.

[funkbaron]

You won't get the loom out with the servo in the way, no chance.

You could leave the brake lines connected and undo the 4 servo bolts from inside the car, through the pedal box, with a very long extension bar ideally to make life easy and then pull the servo out a bit. Do you plan to run the hydrualic clutch setup? Are you changing the pedal box or making a bodge from the mk2 one? Either way, you'll need the servo pulled far enough out the way to beat the bulkhead flat to mount the master cylinder for the clutch. Personally, I would remove it completely and bleed the brakes, it ain't that hard - also, are you not upgrading the brakes at the front, which would need bleeding anyway? Engine swap is also a prime oppurtunity to replace the brake lines etc.

[Golf Nut Pete]

your right funky, its best to do these things that are so easy to do with the engine out now rather than later so have dismatled it all and will be putting in new brake pipes throughout.
Not going to be using the hydro clutch but going down the seat cable clutch mech and mk2 1.3 clutch cable route, retaining the original pedal box. Also going to be using the g60 calpier carriers and disks to give 280mm brakes, my calipers are in good nick so keeping them (unless summet else comes up that is).

Been busyish this weekend, first thing i had to do was get that old kr lump and box out of the engine bay so i have lots of room to work (heavy mofo it is).



With that out of the way i could get the last couple of bolts holding the subframe on out, usin one of these made it very easy and quick



A 1/2" 230v electric impact wrench, £20 from netto the other day, a bargain .

With that out i found my steering rack has been broken for some time, the housing where the inner boot wraps around is broke.



Im not sure what to do about this, has been broke for a while and has passed mot. Should i buy a new one while i have the chance to fit it?

As mentioned in a previous post it is impossible to remove the engine bay looms with the servo and master cylinder in place, so off it had to come.
First of all was to remove the master cylinder from the servo just 2 nuts (10mm i think) either side and the 2 brake pipes, these require an 11mm spanner/brake pipe spanner which round off very easy so keep a pair of vice grips handy.
Once you have done this you may withdraw the master cylinder from the servo and get ready with a bucket to catch the fluid.
To remove the servo you must go inside to the drivers footwell. Look on the bulkhead and you will see 4 nuts in a square with the servo sticking through it and connecting to the brake pedal, as seen below



Remove these nuts with a very long extention and ratchet as there is no room realy to move the ratchet about, although you could just about.
Once the 4 nuts are out you will then need to disconect the servo from the brake pedal, it is held on by a circlip and a pin, remove circlip and pin and its ready for removal.





you can see above the two wiring loom holes on the bulkhead behind the suspension turret and how tight it is, so definatley needed to be removed.

With this now out of the way its time to remove the wiring loom from the fuse box, so time for the fuse box to be dropped down.



With the fuse box dropped down you can see the engine and lighting loomcoming throught the bulkhead. Trace these wires to the fuse box terminals and pull the plugs out. If you are not removing the lighting loom you can leave these in, i just removed it so i could un-tangle the loom and make clearence for when the bay gets painted.
The engine and lighting looms are totaly seperate, so here is a pic of the wires/plugs to remove from fusebox.



These are the plugs for the lighting loom you need to unplug.



And these are engine loom plugs you need to remove.

With these plugs taken out of the fuse box you can carefully pull them through the bulkhead, untangle and seperate the looms



Engine loom seperated from the lighting loom and ecu.

Now the looms out of the way i started to label up the the brake pipes for dismantling, writing on these labels where they connect to.



I disconnected all these from the front to the rear bias valve with a pair of vise grips and an 11mm spanner.
I will be using these as templates when i make some more new ones. The pipe sizes i believe are 3/16 and 10x1 ends?

Next thing i did was to remove the gear shifter. Above the exhaust heat shield you will find 4 bolts, very easy undo them and it should fall out if you have removed the centre console.





That was pretty much all my lazy ass could be bothered to get done this weekend. Got myself a couple of things through the post though.



One of these, a solid front engine mount, this enables you to use the standard mk2 front engine support without the need for any modifications. Cost £35 plus postage i think and is a lot cheaper than vibratechnics mounts and easier than sorcing the corrado front support, made buy a guy called "Duff" who posts on here.



And one of these, a mk3 vr6 obd2 engine loom.



Next week (weather permitting) ill clean up the engine bay with some degreaser and get busy with the prep for paint. If its bad weather i may strip the vr loom and seperate the stuff i dont need, a job i am ancious about starting.

[Golf Nut Pete]

right a few questions i suppose.



This is the fuse box end of the obd2 wiring loom.
I know the yellows are for the lights and the whites are for the engine, i dont want the lighting loom obviously. But what out of these do i keep?

1). Is strippin this loom a nightmare? (A wirng diagram for this loom would be great if anyone has one? )

2). I have read that the wiring for the coolant fans, fan control unit and aux water pump (which i want) are intergrated into the lighting loom (which i dont want)? Is this true, and if so how do you people deal with this or is it best to go after market with regards to the cooling and ditch the fan control box?

3). I found an electric vw vdo box behind the centre console/ashtray. Is this the isv control box? if so do i need it and should i get rid of it or leave it be?
Cheers for any info folks.

[rubjonny]

its hard to tell but is the lighting and engine looms in the same gromet? if so thats a bit strange, my mates abf loom had them in seperate grommets

what you want to do is bin all the plugs that have nothing to do with the engine, remove all the lighting loom etc. You obv want the aux pump and some of the fan stuff, so that makes things a little tricky. The best thing to do is unwrap all the loom, ID all the plugs, and chop out the stuff you dont need, only retain the bits you do in that grommet, then re-wrap it all. It will take a long time but it is worth it to have the job done 'properly' [:Y:

my tip for you, is as you unwrap it put a single bit of loom tape round it every 50cm or so, to keep the loom in the right shape. This also helps stop it getting tangled up, trust me I wish I had thought of it before unwrapping my mates ABF engine loom

Yesh the vdo box is the isv controller, you dont need it. pull it out without chopping the loom and you'll make good money, that and the 16v bay loom together uncut is worth a fair bit

[1990]

I got a link to a Russian wiring diagram site that was excellent when I stripped a mk3 loom.

Anyone know that site?


TRY THIS ADOBE FILE...


FROM THIS SITE.....

[funkbaron]

The fan control unit is independent from the fusebox and runs direct from the battery to the fans and aux pump - there's just a 12v perm live running direct to the rad thermo switch from the fusebox, at least thats been the case with the ones I've done - and I use the original switch feed wiring for that from the mk2. Also, you've removed all the white plugs - the 5-pin one with the green wires running to it is for mk2 windscreen wipers, you need to leave that in place. Looking back on this, the wiring was something i dreaded, but turned out to be extremely straight-forward, given the cars run the same fuseboxes.

You need a mk3 Bentley manual ideally, it has a lot of mechanical detail and has decent wiring diagrams - pm me if you need one.

[Golf Nut Pete]

Rubjohny - yep they are in the same grommet, ill get to unwrapping the loom once ive got to grips with the wiring diagrams i found, looks like it will take quite some time just to unwrap it, but good tip with taing the loom as you un-wrap it, simple idea but i would have pobably never thought to have done it . Itll be fun, the part of the project that i think will the most rewarding, the major reason im doing this is to learn. And ill be sure to remove that isv box carfully as it was working very nicely before removed.

1990 - Thanks, just been on that site and downloaded the wring diagrams for a 1997 mk3 golf 2.0l, coulndt find a vr6 one so hoping the may be similar and point me in the right direction. I was trying for a while to navigate with the rusian writing until i realised google can translate the page into english which made it lots easier

Funk - quite intersting, that would make it easier if the fan control unit wirin is seperate, hopfully ill find thats the case when i rip it apart, although it looks to be all intergrated, but we'll see i suppose. So you say in neeed to seperate the white 5 pin plug from my old engine loom and keep it, ill remember that for weekend (that would have ****d me of later on if i hadnt had learnt that ). PM sent about the manual by the way, tah very much.

Cheers for the advice peoples.

[rubjonny]

Yeah, just wish I had thought of it before I finished doing the wiring
Oh and I have early and late corrado VR6 diagrams if it helps!

[Golf Nut Pete]

Originally Posted by rubjonny

Yeah, just wish I had thought of it before I finished doing the wiring
Oh and I have early and late corrado VR6 diagrams if it helps!

i appreciate any and all documentation and advice i can get, i dont think that corrado vr's ever had the obd2 setup did they? but still im sure it would come in handy as they dont differ too much so would like to see what you got, tah very much.